Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

A place to talk about Bashar's teachings and anything you feel is relevant to it.

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Happiness
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Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by Happiness » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:16 pm

"There are no limitations to the self. You are only limited by your beliefs. Your beliefs create your reality."

While I'd like to accept these statements as true, I've found 2 counterarguments to them.

1. If these statements are true, then I would want to be luxuriously self-indulgent. I would want to eat all the chocolate and delicious food that I want and not get fat. I would want to have a great body, muscular with six-pack abs, without spending much time and effort working out or watching my diet. I would want to get money without working for it. I would want to get all the sex I want without getting tired and with whomever I want without getting rejected. But this is not how the world works: if I eat too much, I get fat; I won't get a great body without working out; I won't get any money if I don't work for it; I can't have sex as frequently as I want or with whomever I want. So if these statements are true, why can't I get all these things that I want?

2. Why would people who overestimate their ability fail? There is no shortage in the world of incidents of people who overestimate their ability but fail miserably in whatever they set out to do. These people overly believe in their ability, and very often they themselves are the only ones unaware of their overestimation and may even refuse to listen to the advice of their friends. If they have such strong belief in their ability, why then would they fail if "your beliefs create your reality"?

3. Also, I see a problem that these statements can cause if they are true: they can be applied in ways that are unscientific and unfair. It is basic science that if I consume more calories than I burn, I get fat. So if I can, just by believing so, wish away all the extra calories after eating, then doesn't this run contrary to established scientific fact? So if I can, just by believing so, influence/determine the outcome of a scientific experiment or measurement on a whim, then wouldn't it be meaningless to conduct any scientific experiment or measurement? And if scientific experiments and measurements are meaningless, how could it be possible that science makes technological advancement and improves our lives? Also, does "your beliefs create your reality" mean that if I believe that global warming is fake news, then the Earth will not undergo global warming? So would people who do not believe in global warming and therefore continue to pollute the planet shift themselves to a universe where there is no global warming? So if you did something wrong or illegal, could you wish away the consequences, such as a fine or a jail term, simply by believing strongly that you won't get them? If so, then these statements not only go against science, but also justice.
Last edited by Happiness on Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Billy
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by Billy » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:14 pm

1. You propose these examples but why would you want each of them? Presumably to achieve a feeling which is preferable to you. The things are just symbols of how to achieve the feelings. This paragraph is also littered with your belief that you can't have your cake and eat it. So that's true for you. Instead of coming here to disprove belief theory, try changing your beliefs in this area, roll with it, be perceptive, notice how your consciousness changes and experience it for yourself. There's nothing to gain from running away from the work you have to do with yourself - no matter how you try to justify it. It can be hard to face your demons - to analyse yourself - the bits of you you're not happy with. It's fine to come here trying to show others how your ego is right but it's not really the point if you're completely honest with yourself.

2. You don't know what is going on in their minds- you've no idea how secure or insecure they actually are and what they are or aren't inviting into their lives. If you happen to have noticed a few of these people in your reality, it seems to me you're inviting that version of them because of something which resonates on the same level within you. Which is why you're here writing this post right? Because you believe that beliefs don't matter, which is still a self fulfilling belief with a subsequent influence on your reality.

3. Yes. No. Maybe. Probably. It's not for me or anybody else to reframe your constructs. The fact you need absolute justification for everything, even down to scientific rigour and proof shows that you have some narrowing of perspective, as we all do, but also that your ego seems out of control. Try a hero dose of psychedelic mushrooms, a strip of LSD, an Ayahuasca ceremony, many years of meditation or just tell it to shut the F up for a bit whilst you play with believing the opposite, for no other reason than because it's fun. And it works.

Happiness
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by Happiness » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:06 pm

Billy wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:14 pm
1. You propose these examples but why would you want each of them? Presumably to achieve a feeling which is preferable to you. The things are just symbols of how to achieve the feelings. This paragraph is also littered with your belief that you can't have your cake and eat it. So that's true for you. Instead of coming here to disprove belief theory, try changing your beliefs in this area, roll with it, be perceptive, notice how your consciousness changes and experience it for yourself. There's nothing to gain from running away from the work you have to do with yourself - no matter how you try to justify it. It can be hard to face your demons - to analyse yourself - the bits of you you're not happy with. It's fine to come here trying to show others how your ego is right but it's not really the point if you're completely honest with yourself.
1. The reason I gave these examples is not to disprove belief theory, but rather to question/investigate its mechanism of action and its scope of application. If it turns out that it is not possible to "eat all the chocolate and delicious food that I want and not get fat" not because belief theory doesn't work but because of some underlying reason related to its mechanism of action—for example, anyone who eats all the chocolate and delicious food that he wants and at the same time believes he won't get fat is actually holding onto 2 opposing, contradictory beliefs, and hence is doomed to fail—then, belief theory couldn't be applied, in this case, to achieving "eating all the chocolate and delicious food that I want and not getting fat". And therefore anyone who sets himself to do so is only wasting his time.
Billy wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:14 pm
2. Which is why you're here writing this post right? Because you believe that beliefs don't matter, which is still a self fulfilling belief with a subsequent influence on your reality.
2. I believe "your beliefs create your reality". But I am running into some issues with it, and I don't want to hide it.
Billy wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:14 pm
3. The fact you need absolute justification for everything, even down to scientific rigour and proof shows that you have some narrowing of perspective, as we all do, but also that your ego seems out of control. Try a hero dose of psychedelic mushrooms, a strip of LSD, an Ayahuasca ceremony, many years of meditation or just tell it to shut the F up for a bit whilst you play with believing the opposite, for no other reason than because it's fun. And it works.
3. I don't see how checking for scientific rigour is an indication of an out-of-control ego. I believe checking for scientific rigour/compatibility/consistency/good sense is a reasonable, sensible thing to do, rather than an action to boost my ego. Checking for compatibility helps me to assimilate "belief theory" into my current system of belief. It has nothing to do with boosting my ego.

snape
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by snape » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:05 pm

Nice topic but i believe overestimating ones abilities is rather a state of expectation, than actually a state of high vibration to achive a result

snape
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by snape » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:10 pm

And also you understand science does not have the answers for everything. Havent you heard of unexplained "miracles" about health?

Happiness
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by Happiness » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:25 pm

snape wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:10 pm
And also you understand science does not have the answers for everything. Havent you heard of unexplained "miracles" about health?
Science does not yet have the answers for many things, but as we progress many more things can be explained scientifically, including those "miracles" currently unexplained by science.

Bashar's teachings do not run contrary to science. For example, he mentioned that thoughts/feelings have electromagnetic realities that rise outward, affecting the atmosphere itself, and they group through attraction, building up areas of events and circumstances that finally coalesce, either as matter in objects or as events in time. This, although not yet proven scientifically, is based on scientific ideas/principles and could be scientifically verified in future.

snape
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by snape » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:39 pm

Wait, some concepts and ideas of bashar which are similar to other " metaphysical" sources are very old and older than science, thoughts and feelings affecting circumstances is not just mentioned only by bashar...but anyway another thing you can consider about beliefs and science is placebo...

Billy
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by Billy » Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:23 am

Science always thinks it is correct. Science always thinks it is the most advanced. Science always sneers at spirituality. Yet science never acknowledges itself - that it has changed it's mind on countless topics over the years. What was deemed as absolute yesterday is totally different today and will be entirely different again in the future. This isn't a great track record and you see it's impact every day in our health institutions, education, prisons, food, transport... I find it laughable that science can even present itself as a science.

Regards my comments about your beliefs / ego what I'm trying to point out to you is that believing is seeing, not the other way around. Otherwise known in many religions as the 'leap of faith'. Ego is always fear based, narrow minded and logical. Your last comment, defending yourself by saying you're not just trying to boost your ego, is also idiosyncratic of your ego talking. I'm not calling you out here, or insulting / trying to offend you, I'm saying there is a lot in your words which points to a strong ego. One of the greatest things I've ever done and will continue to do for the rest of my days, is to pull the rug on my ego as things only ever get much, much better when I do. A good book for you to consider would be RAW - Prometheus Rising. If you feel at all offended by anything I've said - no matter how slight - that's your ego thinking that. And just imagine if I'm right??

xplosiw
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by xplosiw » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:37 am

I think the major issue you're focused here is that we have collective beliefs that run very deep/high and our conscious minds don't really have the willpower or access to change them right away.

What this means in practice is that in order to eat all the chocolate and not get fat, the easier way to do that would be to eat chocolate in a lucid dream. Dreams are a collectively accepted gateway to infinite luxury. This might be easier than changing a vast set of collective beliefs about our reality.

Now, is it IMPOSSIBLE to do so? I don't think so. But it's not very probable that any of us are willing to go that far for the chocolate, since it's probably easier to simply work out and eat chocolate until it tastes like shit. It literally is the path of least resistance.

But given a person of much higher frequency, say someone like Buddha or Jesus (perhaps an ET like Bashar?), it might be easier for them to momentarely detach from the collective reality and manifest a hundree chocolate bars, eat them, and attach them back to the collective belief set and not get fat. Again, Bashar has said that this has something to do with dreams and the "template level reality" which you can learn to access in the dreamstate. And higher brainwave frequencies.

So unless you can reliably increase your brainwave functioning to high Gamma and up to Epsilon freqiencies, I don't think you have the understanding to create such radical changes in the reality. But on a lower level, where it's more difficult to detect, you can sense synchronicities that might prove that this is in fsct the structure of physical reality.

Billy
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by Billy » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:46 am

I must look into that template level reality stuff - sounds like fun!

TheInventor
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by TheInventor » Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:12 am

"There are no limitations to the self. You are only limited by your beliefs. Your beliefs create your reality."

You need to find the Handout "Mechanics of Channelling" it shows several fields 1: the bia field, which is your belief of positive or negative viewpoint of reality, 2: the Physical Mind Field, which is created in order for you to experience your reality. 3: HigherMind Field 4:Consensus Reality Field . Here is a pic of the bias field and the physical mind field

the 1/2 circle bia field if the pink/purple field, my bias field is neutral (very rare) actually Bashar has said that Most humans have a positive or negative bias all the time and flips up and down. me I am just a rock of non=bias perception.
the darker purple field is the physical mind field.

the invention you see is a actual zero point energy device, the constructed quartz crystals have a harmonic relationship with the quantum coherent consciencness of your mind and they intereact. This was during my experimentation phase, and I did not completely understand the invention until this year. The most recent Bashar Channelling 'The nature of existence" Bashar does talk about how some people are using aspects of the technology given, I am one of them.
auric hat.jpg
I am working on a zero point energy device to fit into a cellphone battery, gotta get funding to build my spaceship you know.

Any way, the argument of the notion of These arguments:

"There are no limitations to the self. You are only limited by your beliefs. Your beliefs create your reality."

While I'd like to accept these statements as true, I've found 2 counterarguments to them.

1. If these statements are true, then I would want to be luxuriously self-indulgent. I would want to eat all the chocolate and delicious food that I want and not get fat. I would want to have a great body, muscular with six-pack abs, without spending much time and effort working out or watching my diet. I would want to get money without working for it. I would want to get all the sex I want without getting tired and with whomever I want without getting rejected. But this is not how the world works: if I eat too much, I get fat; I won't get a great body without working out; I won't get any money if I don't work for it; I can't have sex as frequently as I want or with whomever I want. So if these statements are true, why can't I get all these things that I want?


1. Bashar has spoken about people that have multiple split personalites, and how one personality has cancer (with xray evidence to support the cancer) and another personality has no cancer (with xray evidence to suppor that the cancer is gone) in the same person in the same periof of time. this is how strong of the fact that your belief creates your reality

2. Now the unspoken component will be made clear, is the fact that both persons have no knowledge of the other person. they literally forget the conditions and beliefs of the other person (in the same body)

3. The Paradox of Change is that in order to achieve your desired changes, you also need to forget who you are. only when you forget those conditions, you no longer keep dragging your conditions by using memory of yourself to keep those conditions in your life. the requirement of forgetting is really not expressed often, when people want to change.

4. Now, Bashar has said numerous times, you need to act on your exicitement, this conpletes the circuit and creates the abilty to change into the direction you desire. if you dont act, you will not complete the circuit of energy needed to shift to the reality you desire, and by not forgetting those undesired things, you keep those things in your conscienceness field. Yes I am not spelling conscienceness right. oh well.

5. people calling it 'letting go' a better action is to 'forgettabout it' literally.

6. Another Bashar quote is 'you can complicate things all you want'

Billy
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by Billy » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:46 pm

Great post Inventor - I've read it a few times now - thanks.

Billy
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by Billy » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:50 pm

Especially 3 and 5. I think that would apply to changing others too. It's quite easy to change someone we don't really know as opposed to someone we've lived with for many years. Forgetting really is key but much easier said than done!

snape
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by snape » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:18 am

Forget? You mean literally? How can you do it?

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Alice
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by Alice » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:35 am

snape wrote:
Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:05 pm
Nice topic but i believe overestimating ones abilities is rather a state of expectation, than actually a state of high vibration to achive a result
And Bashar repeatedly tells us to have zero expectations. Our attachment to a specific outcome only screws things up.

btw...I can eat all the delicious food and chocolate I want, and I stay slim. How the hell do I do that?

I eat them in reasonable amounts, which also happens to be what I want. Being overstuffed just doesn't feel good to me.
But make no mistake about it, I love food, and I savor every bite. Which is much more enjoyable
than, for example, scarfing up a whole quart of ice cream. In short: "Eat to live, don't live to eat."

Anyway...I think this Seth quote is apropos. What is important is the inner development:
There must be an open-minded, and openhearted attitude here. You must not try to use what you have learned in a narrow, limiting way. This
hampers your own development. It closes your eyes to many possibilities that will be important to you. It is natural, perhaps, to want to use what you have learned, this information, as a technique to achieve what you at any particular time think desirable, a particular person, a particular thing. But what is important is the inner development. If this is taken care of, it will automatically lead you to the person that is best for you and to the circumstances that will help you develop. To insist that a specific individual or a specific goal be attained through these methods is limiting. There must always be the acknowledgement that you do not consciously as yet realize the depths of yourself, the goals you have set and the challenges, and this material should be used to open up your inner horizons and to lead you in those directions toward which your inner self has already set you. If you then egotistically, say - No - this particular situation is what I want, then you may be blocking the inner direction which has been meant for you.

Billy
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by Billy » Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:48 am

snape wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:18 am
Forget? You mean literally? How can you do it?
That's why I prefer to say ignore than forget

TheInventor
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by TheInventor » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:10 am

snape wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:18 am
Forget? You mean literally? How can you do it?
you just do, creating a belief and removing your belief's is a
'non manipulation of self" there is alot,...tons of self-help books and advice in society that use self-manipulation as a mechanism of change, you will know you are doing this when you expend more energy on doing "a change" compared to the results of your action. thats why high achievement people exhaust thesmself's then regress to the condition they were in, or evere a worse state The final method people generally use is being exhausted. They just give up trying everything' however at that bottom of darkness, there is always light to guide into a better state, people forget that ying/yang has a black spot and white spot in the center of light and the center of darkness. thats why you will see two versions of ying/yang, one with those oppositive spots, and the incorrect one that doesn't have the darkness or lightness in the opposite color.

As far as forgetting, its actually a natural process really, when you are focused on excitement, you carry with you the tools that are needed, when you do this, you no longer project energy into those patterns that you then keep in memory.

the actual science is best described as this, your conscienseness projects time/space. the space/time that is prexisting outside of your time is call 'virtual time/space' it exist, but not part of the bubble you project. when you overlay your own enery of space/time you transform virtual time/space into "real time/space" with your own bubble. only then can you remember that pattern of thought is when it exists in your space/time bubble. this really happens....see photo.

now when you remember, you actually move your consciencness to a piece of space/time/patterns that contains the thing you remember.

you will notice that when a person really lives in the past, and remembers alot of past, their focus is really not in the present.

Billy
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by Billy » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:27 am

And now we're coming full circle - modern day scientific explanations of ancient spiritual concepts! This is the reason I try not to get caught up in the theory much these days- I'm trying to walk the walk instead of constantly talking the talk. My ego loves to talk, and justify, and talk, and prove, and talk some more, ad infinitum. The more i'm able to calm it, the easier it is to stay present, forget the past and the future, and place my faith where it belongs - with my higher self. It really is astonishing how things unfold right before my eyes when I'm flowing like this.

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Alice
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by Alice » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:03 am

Billy wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:27 am
And now we're coming full circle - modern day scientific explanations of ancient spiritual concepts! This is the reason I try not to get caught up in the theory much these days- I'm trying to walk the walk instead of constantly talking the talk. My ego loves to talk, and justify, and talk, and prove, and talk some more, ad infinitum. The more i'm able to calm it, the easier it is to stay present, forget the past and the future, and place my faith where it belongs - with my higher self. It really is astonishing how things unfold right before my eyes when I'm flowing like this.
Do you think your comment here relates to the Seth quote I posted?

I think it does, re what you said: "place my faith where it belongs - with my higher self. It really is astonishing how things unfold right before my eyes when I'm flowing like this."

Seth again--bolding mine:
There must be an open-minded, and openhearted attitude here. You must not try to use what you have learned in a narrow, limiting way. This
hampers your own development. It closes your eyes to many possibilities that will be important to you. It is natural, perhaps, to want to use what you have learned, this information, as a technique to achieve what you at any particular time think desirable, a particular person, a particular thing. But what is important is the inner development. If this is taken care of, it will automatically lead you to the person that is best for you and to the circumstances that will help you develop. To insist that a specific individual or a specific goal be attained through these methods is limiting. There must always be the acknowledgement that you do not consciously as yet realize the depths of yourself, the goals you have set and the challenges, and this material should be used to open up your inner horizons and to lead you in those directions toward which your inner self has already set you. If you then egotistically, say - No - this particular situation is what I want, then you may be blocking the inner direction which has been meant for you.

Billy
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Re: Counterarguments to "your beliefs create your reality"

Post by Billy » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:30 pm

Alice wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:03 am
Billy wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:27 am
And now we're coming full circle - modern day scientific explanations of ancient spiritual concepts! This is the reason I try not to get caught up in the theory much these days- I'm trying to walk the walk instead of constantly talking the talk. My ego loves to talk, and justify, and talk, and prove, and talk some more, ad infinitum. The more i'm able to calm it, the easier it is to stay present, forget the past and the future, and place my faith where it belongs - with my higher self. It really is astonishing how things unfold right before my eyes when I'm flowing like this.
Do you think your comment here relates to the Seth quote I posted?

I think it does, re what you said: "place my faith where it belongs - with my higher self. It really is astonishing how things unfold right before my eyes when I'm flowing like this."

Seth again--bolding mine:
There must be an open-minded, and openhearted attitude here. You must not try to use what you have learned in a narrow, limiting way. This
hampers your own development. It closes your eyes to many possibilities that will be important to you. It is natural, perhaps, to want to use what you have learned, this information, as a technique to achieve what you at any particular time think desirable, a particular person, a particular thing. But what is important is the inner development. If this is taken care of, it will automatically lead you to the person that is best for you and to the circumstances that will help you develop. To insist that a specific individual or a specific goal be attained through these methods is limiting. There must always be the acknowledgement that you do not consciously as yet realize the depths of yourself, the goals you have set and the challenges, and this material should be used to open up your inner horizons and to lead you in those directions toward which your inner self has already set you. If you then egotistically, say - No - this particular situation is what I want, then you may be blocking the inner direction which has been meant for you.
Absolutely!

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