Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

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TheInventor
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by TheInventor » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:44 am

Law number four: Everything changes, except the first three laws.
That’s it; everything you experience is based and built upon those four laws. If you didn’t hear it in the
four laws, it’s not an absolute. But everything you experience is, thus, then based upon some combination or some perspective or some understanding of those four principles and that’s it. Does that
help?
per transcript

TheInventor
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by TheInventor » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:11 am

1. You exist…you always have and you always will. You are eternal.
2. Everything is here and now.
3. The One is the All and the All is the One.
4. What you put out is what you get back.
5. Everything changes except for the first four…..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I broken up part of the first 5 laws to under 100 words per posting.

Law Number One: You Exist.
Law Number Two: The One is the All, and the All are the One.
Law Number Three: What You Put Out is What You Get Back.
Law Number Four: Change Is The Only Constant, and Everything Changes Except the First Three Laws.
---------------------------

The additional law that was added was 'everything is here and now'

This understanding of the phrase 'everything is here and now' illustrates that there is nothing else in addition to all that is.
Lets look at the misconceptions of the diagram given and why
5 laws.png
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The first concept
1st frame.jpg
1st frame.jpg (20.84 KiB) Viewed 1501 times
This concept illustrates that 'everything changes' is outside or apart from the 1st 4 laws "everything that doesnt change' There is ''nonexistence' outside from 'all that is' 'nohting' and all the infinte universes exist in 'all that is'

This concept would be correct from the perspective of you in a single universe prior to shifting to a different universe. as the concept of 'this and that' requires that both exist at the same time, one in your universe, one outside of your universe. this is why the 5th law is perspective not physical.

However becuase one of the 1st 4 law is 'all that is' this is literally all the infinte universes in infinite conbinations of existance. you cannot concieve of 'non existence' This is why the 5th law is not a physical concept of a changed universe. (it cannot exist outside of all that is)
2nd Frame.jpg
2nd Frame.jpg (34.78 KiB) Viewed 1501 times
This concept is telling that the 5th law exist outside of the 4 laws, remember 'everything is here and now' by defination is includes all parallel realities. every universe is a complete change (even if only the difference is a single 1/2 spin of a electron) this illustration has everything that doesn't change and part of 'all that is' and has 'everything that changes' outside of 'all that is' which in impossible, the only thing outside of all that is is 'non existence' itself, and Bashar has side numerous time 'Non-existance is full"

TheInventor
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by TheInventor » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:29 am

5th Frame.jpg
5th Frame.jpg (23.98 KiB) Viewed 1501 times
"Since there are no laws now that point to 'everything that changes' there may as well be, so one is created"

This again is claiming that the concept 'everything that changes' is outside of 'all that is' and its not. beause 'all that is' is also 'everything is here and now' there is no means of additional creation. nothing new is created, it already exists.
6th Frame.jpg
6th Frame.jpg (22.3 KiB) Viewed 1501 times
this is a concept that 'all that is' does not contain everything. one of the laws is 'everything is here and now'
and that is the difference inbetween the 4 laws given and 5 laws given remember the law that is not in the first 4 laws given is
2. Everything is here and now.

In the transcript is this phrase

"But everything you experience is, thus, then based upon some combination or some perspective or some understanding of those four principles and that’s it. Does that
help?"

it actually contains the word 'perspective' and you can only have a perspective by having a experienceing a change of perspective. which is non physical and not outside of 'all that is' which is why the 5th law is non physical and a description as 'everything changes except the first 4 laws'

the claim that changes exist outside of 'all that is' is a misunderstanding of what all that is...is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ca4miMMaCE

This video is really quite good. please review the video, its like 11mins long, however its great on understanding multiverses

PianoMastR64
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by PianoMastR64 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:43 pm

OgBashar wrote:I think that what the 5th law is saying is that we are the changing perspective of All That Is. I don’t see a contradiction.
There's definitely no contradiction. It seems like there is one at first, but Bashar explains how it's not. Do you understand exactly what this seeming contradiction is?

TheInventor
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by TheInventor » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:40 am

Watch the video link.

There's definitely no contradiction. It seems like there is one at first, but Bashar explains how it's not. Do you understand exactly what this seeming contradiction is?

What? You cannot have a "seeming contradiction"

ingerul9
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by ingerul9 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:51 am

@TheInventor - I must commend you on your patience.

On a second re-read of what PianoMaster said I don't seem to see your suggestion/claim of him that the 5th law is outside of All That Is.

As far as I understand what PianoMaster is saying - is only putting it up in his own words what Bashar has said in 4 laws of creation - http://bashar-forum.org/viewtopic.php?f ... 100#p17077 - of which he already posted the quote.

OgBashar
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by OgBashar » Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:19 pm

PianoMastR64 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:43 pm
OgBashar wrote:I think that what the 5th law is saying is that we are the changing perspective of All That Is. I don’t see a contradiction.
There's definitely no contradiction. It seems like there is one at first, but Bashar explains how it's not. Do you understand exactly what this seeming contradiction is?
I think I understand how it could be misinterpreted.

TheInventor
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by TheInventor » Thu Feb 22, 2018 6:58 am

On a second re-read of what PianoMaster said I don't seem to see your suggestion/claim of him that the 5th law is outside of All That Is.

As far as I understand what PianoMaster is saying - is only putting it up in his own words what Bashar has said in 4 laws of creation - http://bashar-forum.org/viewtopic.php?f ... 100#p17077 - of which he already posted the quote.
[/quote]

The difference between the 4 laws of creation and 5 laws of creation is "everything is here and now" the diagram
1st frame.jpg
1st frame.jpg (20.84 KiB) Viewed 1411 times
This clearly shows a grouping of 1-4 laws and definded as "things that dont change" and "things that do change" as apart from
the 4 laws. This is impossible since "all that is" is "here and now"

if one watched the link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ca4miMMaCE

then alot of things get cleared up on the "everything is here and now"

the notion that change is outside of all that is is incorrect.

This quote

Bashar: "Law number four: Everything changes except the first three laws. Everything changes except the first three laws. The reason it is framed that way is so that you can understand that means that even the fourth law changes. And when change changes what does change become? That which does not change, which is the first three laws. So the fourth law gives birth to the first three, which gives birth to the fourth, and it is in that sense a circle of perfection."

Is not in the references I gave, nor this quote is identified in which session this is said. I have identified the 2 sessions where my quotes are
referenced. PianoMastR64 does not ID the source material

TheInventor
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by TheInventor » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:58 am

Bashar: "Law number four: Everything changes except the first three laws. Everything changes except the first three laws. The reason it is framed that way is so that you can understand that means that even the fourth law changes. And when change changes what does change become? That which does not change, which is the first three laws. So the fourth law gives birth to the first three, which gives birth to the fourth, and it is in that sense a circle of perfection."

I have never read this in a transcript. wierd.

ingerul9
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by ingerul9 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:04 am

I do understand what you are implying but you are using a hypothesis that has the assumption of the laws 1-4 and law 5 being in different positions within All That Is. I don't see where PianoMaster has said this. When PianoMaster draw the diagrams I fail to see where he says that Law 5 is "outside" of All That Is.

Regarding the quote that you don't find I too remembered this Bashar saying in a session - I will search for it - maybe I will find it and get back to you.

ingerul9
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by ingerul9 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:14 am

PianoMaster said it is in this session - I assume it to be in the monologue - http://www.basharstore.com/the-4-laws-of-creation/

Okay I found another page with a transcript from one of the Q&A from within the session - https://www.scribd.com/document/97996314/THE-ONE - I don't know if it is from the session above though. It may be that when he transcribed it he named it 4 laws of creation but it could not be related to the session above.

TheInventor
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by TheInventor » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:41 am

PianoMaster said it is in this session - I assume it to be in the monologue - http://www.basharstore.com/the-4-laws-of-creation/

Okay I found another page with a transcript from one of the Q&A from within the session - https://www.scribd.com/document/97996314/THE-ONE - I don't know if it is from the session above though. It may be that when he transcribed it he named it 4 laws of creation but it could not be related to the session above.

Well the scribd.com material has part of the 4 laws, Then there is this part "And when change changes what does changebecome? That which does not change, whichis the first three laws." is not in the Bashar Reading Material "The Four Laws of Creation" I believe that portion to be made up. The Font is funny and its not in form of Q: and B: answers. That looks and I assume that its someone adding material to the Bashar Transcript. Therefore I conclude its not valid information. Its not Bashar's Style of information.

PianoMaster shows the 5th law as seperate from the first 4, how can it be seperate from the first 4 laws? it cannot be outside of the 1st 4 laws.

The Bashar Transcripts PDF "But everything you experience is, thus, then based upon some combination or some perspective or some understanding of those four principles and that’s it. Does that help?"

This part has the word perspective in it.

I wish people in this thread watched this video, it explains how mutliple dimensions exist. and give a good explaination of "all that is"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ca4miMMaCE

ingerul9
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by ingerul9 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:43 pm

I was aware of Bashar's answer that PianoMaster highlighted from the scribd - before any posts on this thread - it stuck with me because of this addition that change changes :). I am also familiar with tenthdimension website by Rob Bryanton and have seen the additional video.

I cannot prove to you that this is Bashar said other than actually finding the piece out and giving you the exact timeframe for which you can look yourself but as far as I remember it was similar to the manner quoted.

TheInventor
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by TheInventor » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:23 pm

Well the final solution is to ask Bashar directly the question "Is the 5th law a change in perspective?' Before I knew Bashar Info was pirated instead of free, I collected as much as possible; and listened to the material since 2005? That portion I dispute I never came across. I studied the material for inventive ideas, not philosophical ones. To me Bashar answers and explanations are referenced to physics.

TheInventor
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by TheInventor » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:24 pm

The newest video is "the nature of existance' might have answers.

PianoMastR64
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by PianoMastR64 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:47 am

TheInventor wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:40 am
Watch the video link.

There's definitely no contradiction. It seems like there is one at first, but Bashar explains how it's not. Do you understand exactly what this seeming contradiction is?

What? You cannot have a "seeming contradiction"
I've seen it. In fact, I come back for a rewatch every once in a while. Thanks for the suggestion though.

PianoMastR64
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:46 am

Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by PianoMastR64 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:03 am

TheInventor wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:41 am
PianoMaster said it is in this session - I assume it to be in the monologue - http://www.basharstore.com/the-4-laws-of-creation/

Okay I found another page with a transcript from one of the Q&A from within the session - https://www.scribd.com/document/97996314/THE-ONE - I don't know if it is from the session above though. It may be that when he transcribed it he named it 4 laws of creation but it could not be related to the session above.

Well the scribd.com material has part of the 4 laws, Then there is this part "And when change changes what does changebecome? That which does not change, whichis the first three laws." is not in the Bashar Reading Material "The Four Laws of Creation" I believe that portion to be made up. The Font is funny and its not in form of Q: and B: answers. That looks and I assume that its someone adding material to the Bashar Transcript. Therefore I conclude its not valid information. Its not Bashar's Style of information.

PianoMaster shows the 5th law as seperate from the first 4, how can it be seperate from the first 4 laws? it cannot be outside of the 1st 4 laws.

The Bashar Transcripts PDF "But everything you experience is, thus, then based upon some combination or some perspective or some understanding of those four principles and that’s it. Does that help?"

This part has the word perspective in it.

I wish people in this thread watched this video, it explains how mutliple dimensions exist. and give a good explaination of "all that is"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ca4miMMaCE
The laws somehow existing outside of all that is was not the point of my diagram. I can see how you could interpret it that way. Think of the arrows as linking them together as if to say they're the same thing. Think of the arrows as a perspective change. I thought about making it using venn diagrams, but I couldn't make it look not confusing while also demonstrating my point. It cannot be denied that the 5th law can change. The 5th law saying the first 4 don't change while leaving itself out is too specific and peculiar a detail to not mean something. The 5th law can change, and the core of this thread is to explore why and to what. The laws don't have to be described as existing outside of creation for this to be the case.

TheInventor
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by TheInventor » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:10 pm

PianoMastR64 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:47 am
TheInventor wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:40 am
Watch the video link.

There's definitely no contradiction. It seems like there is one at first, but Bashar explains how it's not. Do you understand exactly what this seeming contradiction is?

What? You cannot have a "seeming contradiction"
I've seen it. In fact, I come back for a rewatch every once in a while. Thanks for the suggestion though.
Like...What a Nice BS answer?

TheInventor
Posts: 528
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:40 am

Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by TheInventor » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:28 pm

The laws somehow existing outside of all that is was not the point of my diagram. I can see how you could interpret it that way. Think of the arrows as linking them together as if to say they're the same thing. Think of the arrows as a perspective change. I thought about making it using venn diagrams, but I couldn't make it look not confusing while also demonstrating my point. It cannot be denied that the 5th law can change. The 5th law saying the first 4 don't change while leaving itself out is too specific and peculiar a detail to not mean something. The 5th law can change, and the core of this thread is to explore why and to what. The laws don't have to be described as existing outside of creation for this to be the case.

You Method of change has the action of seperation from the 1st 4 laws. That is clearly been shown. This is the first mention of "perspective" in your posting, I have clearly said in infinitum...5th law is a change in perspective. There is no mention of perspective in this posting by PianoMastR64

"The fifth law, which states that "everything changes except the first four laws", when changed, becomes the first four. It changes to refer from what changes to what doesn't change which are the other laws the fifth says don't change. Since the laws are just references to constancies of reality, it's the reference that changes, not the wording of the law itself. When the fifth law is the first four, then it's basically just a redundancy of the first four."

this is not a perspective shift being argued. nor numerous other posting. the two common errors that human bias has are 1. everthing else in the universe operates in the continuation of what is understood. 2. process of perception is the same everywhere.

PianoMastR64
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Re: Bashar contradicts himself about the Five Laws?

Post by PianoMastR64 » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:27 am

TheInventor wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:10 pm
PianoMastR64 wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:47 am
TheInventor wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:40 am
Watch the video link.

There's definitely no contradiction. It seems like there is one at first, but Bashar explains how it's not. Do you understand exactly what this seeming contradiction is?

What? You cannot have a "seeming contradiction"
I've seen it. In fact, I come back for a rewatch every once in a while. Thanks for the suggestion though.
Like...What a Nice BS answer?
You're kinda mean.

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