Bashar on the Dark Side

A place to talk about Bashar's teachings and anything you feel is relevant to it.

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Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by Alice » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:58 am

I posted this in the "Mirror, Mirror Notes" thread and as far as I can tell it got lost there, so giving its own thread.

Just think it is worthwhile reading/considering.
Thread I started at the Noble Realms forum, run by Tom Montalk, some years ago. NR is now defunct.

http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=2103

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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by Rokazulu » Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:37 pm

Jen wrote:So, Montalk, I'm guessing you agree with Bashar that negatively oriented beings can't mess with people whose frequency resonance is out of their reach.
Montalk wrote:"Pretty much"
Interesting that Montalk would say that! I read his website and he goes into detail about how he believes negative entities can manipulate you at any corner. Though his post goes on to say that he believes it is lack of awareness that allows this to happen. Wouldn't it be more self-serving to simply believe that they have no control over you what-so-ever and so when your vibration does temporarily lower you don't then start believing that negative entities are influencing you and then therefore allow them to influence you?

I believe it would be much more self-serving to assume that if your vibration is lowering, it is because of a belief you have about yourself and the situation at hand, and not any external forces.

Good topic. I love Montalk's website for various reasons, just like I enjoy TheBiggestPicture.net

Both sites however, talk about raising vibrations and then go on to put the majority of their focus onto negative influences. In my perspective, being aware that negative entities exist is fine, but focusing on the various ways that negative entities might gain the illusion of power instead of the ways you are truly self-empowered may make some people stagnate longer than they need to.
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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by xplosiw » Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:43 pm

Rokazulu wrote: Interesting that Montalk would say that! I read his website and he goes into detail about how he believes negative entities can manipulate you at any corner. Though his post goes on to say that he believes it is lack of awareness that allows this to happen. Wouldn't it be more self-serving to simply believe that they have no control over you what-so-ever and so when your vibration does temporarily lower you don't then start believing that negative entities are influencing you and then therefore allow them to influence you?
I have no idea who Montalk is but since you mentioned self-serving, I immediately imagined a service for self -oriented human. Obviously it would benefit you to believe in that since it allows you to resonate with other beings who also believe that and thus open yourself and them to the possibility of domination. In other words, the only way you are going to find someone to dominate is if you believe you can be dominated and thus resonate with your upcoming victims. It is crucial to form some sort of protection however, since you don't want to be the one dominated by a higher power.

Now, I still have no idea who you are talking about but what I described is a possible idea for why one might choose yo believe that in self-service.

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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by Rokazulu » Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:05 pm

xplosiw wrote:
Rokazulu wrote: Interesting that Montalk would say that! I read his website and he goes into detail about how he believes negative entities can manipulate you at any corner. Though his post goes on to say that he believes it is lack of awareness that allows this to happen. Wouldn't it be more self-serving to simply believe that they have no control over you what-so-ever and so when your vibration does temporarily lower you don't then start believing that negative entities are influencing you and then therefore allow them to influence you?
I have no idea who Montalk is but since you mentioned self-serving, I immediately imagined a service for self -oriented human. Obviously it would benefit you to believe in that since it allows you to resonate with other beings who also believe that and thus open yourself and them to the possibility of domination. In other words, the only way you are going to find someone to dominate is if you believe you can be dominated and thus resonate with your upcoming victims. It is crucial to form some sort of protection however, since you don't want to be the one dominated by a higher power.

Now, I still have no idea who you are talking about but what I described is a possible idea for why one might choose yo believe that in self-service.
Service to self is service to others, because you can't serve others until you first serve yourself.

Your definition is what I would call "negative service to self", who serve themselves at the expense of others through the external world.

I won't use that term anymore since a lot of people have read the Law of One and use that definition in the negative. So I would say that it would serve YOU better to not have any concept of an external entity being capable of controlling and manipulating you where you then would believe you need some kind of protection.
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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by xplosiw » Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:52 am

Rokazulu wrote:
xplosiw wrote:
Rokazulu wrote: Interesting that Montalk would say that! I read his website and he goes into detail about how he believes negative entities can manipulate you at any corner. Though his post goes on to say that he believes it is lack of awareness that allows this to happen. Wouldn't it be more self-serving to simply believe that they have no control over you what-so-ever and so when your vibration does temporarily lower you don't then start believing that negative entities are influencing you and then therefore allow them to influence you?
I have no idea who Montalk is but since you mentioned self-serving, I immediately imagined a service for self -oriented human. Obviously it would benefit you to believe in that since it allows you to resonate with other beings who also believe that and thus open yourself and them to the possibility of domination. In other words, the only way you are going to find someone to dominate is if you believe you can be dominated and thus resonate with your upcoming victims. It is crucial to form some sort of protection however, since you don't want to be the one dominated by a higher power.

Now, I still have no idea who you are talking about but what I described is a possible idea for why one might choose yo believe that in self-service.
Service to self is service to others, because you can't serve others until you first serve yourself.

Your definition is what I would call "negative service to self", who serve themselves at the expense of others through the external world.

I won't use that term anymore since a lot of people have read the Law of One and use that definition in the negative. So I would say that it would serve YOU better to not have any concept of an external entity being capable of controlling and manipulating you where you then would believe you need some kind of protection.
I don't completely agree with that, Bashar says that expanding consciousness means you'll become even more aware of the darkness (and yet you don't need to step into it but aware you will be because denial will lead you into the darkness since it's a segregative belief). So I am okay with there being entities and people with extreme STS personalities. I am aware that I have the option to be afraid of them and their control. Throwing away the whole concept (like you suggested) seems backwards from this point of view :)

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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by Alice » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:18 am

Rokazulu wrote:
Jen wrote:So, Montalk, I'm guessing you agree with Bashar that negatively oriented beings can't mess with people whose frequency resonance is out of their reach.
Montalk wrote:"Pretty much"
Interesting that Montalk would say that! I read his website and he goes into detail about how he believes negative entities can manipulate you at any corner. Though his post goes on to say that he believes it is lack of awareness that allows this to happen. Wouldn't it be more self-serving to simply believe that they have no control over you what-so-ever and so when your vibration does temporarily lower you don't then start believing that negative entities are influencing you and then therefore allow them to influence you?

I believe it would be much more self-serving to assume that if your vibration is lowering, it is because of a belief you have about yourself and the situation at hand, and not any external forces.
Agree.
Good topic. I love Montalk's website for various reasons, just like I enjoy TheBiggestPicture.net

Both sites however, talk about raising vibrations and then go on to put the majority of their focus onto negative influences. In my perspective, being aware that negative entities exist is fine, but focusing on the various ways that negative entities might gain the illusion of power instead of the ways you are truly self-empowered may make some people stagnate longer than they need to.
Tom is big into the Cassiopaean material which I have dipped into.
https://cassiopaea.org/
He's written about the LOA at his site, and says:
The Cassiopaeans advised people to always expect attack, that knowledge protects and ignorance endangers, and that having a happy-go-lucky attitude and practicing non-anticipation of positive things opens the flow for their manifestation. I did not grok this stuff until realizing it myself years later after much observation and pondering, afterwards understanding in retrospect why what the Cassiopaeans said was good and self-consistent advice.
I'd say it's pretty contradictory. If you always expect attack, you're setting yourself up for same.

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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by Alice » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:21 am

xplosiw wrote:
Rokazulu wrote:
xplosiw wrote:
I have no idea who Montalk is but since you mentioned self-serving, I immediately imagined a service for self -oriented human. Obviously it would benefit you to believe in that since it allows you to resonate with other beings who also believe that and thus open yourself and them to the possibility of domination. In other words, the only way you are going to find someone to dominate is if you believe you can be dominated and thus resonate with your upcoming victims. It is crucial to form some sort of protection however, since you don't want to be the one dominated by a higher power.

Now, I still have no idea who you are talking about but what I described is a possible idea for why one might choose yo believe that in self-service.
Service to self is service to others, because you can't serve others until you first serve yourself.

Your definition is what I would call "negative service to self", who serve themselves at the expense of others through the external world.

I won't use that term anymore since a lot of people have read the Law of One and use that definition in the negative. So I would say that it would serve YOU better to not have any concept of an external entity being capable of controlling and manipulating you where you then would believe you need some kind of protection.
I don't completely agree with that, Bashar says that expanding consciousness means you'll become even more aware of the darkness (and yet you don't need to step into it but aware you will be because denial will lead you into the darkness since it's a segregative belief). So I am okay with there being entities and people with extreme STS personalities. I am aware that I have the option to be afraid of them and their control. Throwing away the whole concept (like you suggested) seems backwards from this point of view :)
I am OK with there being STS folks. The polarity game is still serving us at this level. I don't think it's denial to feel we are sovereign and in charge of our vibration and our experience. Isn't that the whole point of Bashar's teachings?

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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by xplosiw » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:04 am

I meant that it's denial to think one should drop or forget the concept of negative manipulative beings. However, this doesn't mean that I or anyone should or has to believe in their power. My original point was that it's a belief (that I don't buy into) and negative people require that belief in order to dominate. That the concept of a negative being having control over me is never going away, it exists. Doesn't mean I believe in it, which is the gist that I got from your posts, somehow implying that I do in fact believe in that when I only ever said that it exists and that denying its existence is in fact a negative thing to do.

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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by Rokazulu » Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:55 am

xplosiw wrote:I meant that it's denial to think one should drop or forget the concept of negative manipulative beings. However, this doesn't mean that I or anyone should or has to believe in their power. My original point was that it's a belief (that I don't buy into) and negative people require that belief in order to dominate. That the concept of a negative being having control over me is never going away, it exists. Doesn't mean I believe in it, which is the gist that I got from your posts, somehow implying that I do in fact believe in that when I only ever said that it exists and that denying its existence is in fact a negative thing to do.
Let me expand my perspective as I am in no way implying you have a negative belief, but I know people often lurk these forums and these conversations are great for them to understand this idea better (also myself so I can obtain more empowering definitions and express myself better). Let me be better with this ONCE MORE!! AND use the word "one" instead of "you".

One never needs to forget the idea of choice to choose a dis-empowering belief. "Forget" might not be the best word to use, but I assume you could always re-member it at anytime you want.

If one doesn't have that belief though, one doesn't believe manipulative beings exist. Even though there are beings that wish they could manipulate people directly. By definition they would not be manipulative unless one believes that they actually are, but of course it is still that one who is creating that illusion for themselves.

I am saying that for anyone who believe that a STS entity's "control and manipulation" is an objective reality is a belief in of itself. So why would anyone say "I don't believe in their control" if they have no control to begin with, just the illusion of control?

So at this point the belief that they have control of you is nonsensical and you immediately will drop it. But, of course you know you always have the choice of picking it back up again! Just like I could totally drink a bottle of Lysol if I wanted to.
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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by xplosiw » Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:43 pm

Thank you, well said!

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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by Alice » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:46 am

Rokazulu wrote:
I am saying that for anyone who believe that a STS entity's "control and manipulation" is an objective reality is a belief in of itself. So why would anyone say "I don't believe in their control" if they have no control to begin with, just the illusion of control?

So at this point the belief that they have control of you is nonsensical and you immediately will drop it. But, of course you know you always have the choice of picking it back up again! Just like I could totally drink a bottle of Lysol if I wanted to.
"The power of the illusion vs. the illusion of power." One of my fave Bashar concepts. With the power of the illusion, we use the outer manifestations (like experiencing that we are being attacked or controlled) as a gauge of our inner reality and motivation to fine-tune ourselves. Although that has to be for its own sake, and can not be conditional on the outer change happening.
In other words that’s the secret of true change - is that you will change and will behave differently than you did before, even if the outside reflection is still the same. When you can be that, when you can behave differently than you did before even when the outside hasn’t changed, then, then you have really changed. And when you then have really changed, the outside has no choice, as a reflection, like in a mirror, but to change, to mirror you.
Lately I've been pondering the general concept of victimhood. I'm in an Al-Anon forum where many see themselves as victims of the alcoholic, and I can't say I haven't been there myself. So this is a very good reminder:
You are not a victim, in any way, shape or form, on any level what-so-ever. Unless you decide that’s the game you want to play. And if you do, it will be allowed, because you are always supported, in everything you decide is true...understand that, anything, anything at all, is possible for you within the context of the reality that you have chosen, and that you are now expanding, even the definition, of that reality, now that you understand, or at least are beginning to understand the power behind the illusion.
Back to my exchange with Montalk, I see upon re-reading that he does beat the drum of control/manipulation, quite a bit. Here is some of our back and forth there.
Montalk wrote:There is also repeated use of the idea that any alien presence in your life is there because you already agreed to it, and to honor that agreement is to step out of victimhood and into understanding. That sounds nice but is an attempt to subvert freewill by forcing you to prematurely align with a falsely assumed foregone choice. It's like saying that if a salesman comes knocking, you better buy something because obviously you agreed to...otherwise he wouldn't be at the door. But in fact the choice is still yours, yet if he can convince you that you already agreed, there goes your cash.
Alice wrote:There's a whole chapter in the book (Visitors From Within) about changing the abduction experience, including how to stop it if we wish. We can decline, just as we can decline to buy from the salesman.
Montalk wrote:Another point: the book says that there are both benevolent and negative aliens, which I agree with, but whereas I believe benevolent ones would never abduct us in order to implant/probe/experiment, the book goes to great lengths to claim it is precisely these probers/implanters/experimenters that are okay and beneficial for us, and that our cooperation with them is required for mankind to evolve to the next level. I think we can evolve on our own when fourth density awareness causes corresponding mutations in our DNA (per Bruce Lipton's concepts), and external hybridization would be more a spiritual control mechanism than anything.
Alice wrote:According to the book, genetic manipulation of species has always been done. I don't think the 4D effect on our DNA is mutually exclusive of this. This is another example of the experience of paradox that I posted about previously, which is a feature of integrating the polarities. Reposting part of that:

Sasha: ... In Visitors from Within the Apexians were discussed as being the species who became the Zetas. It has also been debated by others that the Zetas are really humans coming from the future to influence yourselves.

Keith: Considering the nature of time and space, couldn't it be both?

Sasha: Absolutely yes! Many people would feel that they need a definitive, either/or answer. Are the Zetas Apexians (a race outside of yourselves) or are they future humans - a literal aspect of yourselves returning to heal its past and change its future? It does not have to be one or the other. In fact, because reality is cyclical and not linear, a definitive answer does not make sense. It is both! Therein lies the paradox. As we have said many times, when one approaches a paradox, one is the closest to the truth.
From his website, it looks like he is still on the fence with all of this. The Cassiopaeans have been a strong influence there.[/quote]

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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by TBP » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:49 pm

Rokazulu wrote:
Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:37 pm
Jen wrote:So, Montalk, I'm guessing you agree with Bashar that negatively oriented beings can't mess with people whose frequency resonance is out of their reach.
Montalk wrote:"Pretty much"
Interesting that Montalk would say that! I read his website and he goes into detail about how he believes negative entities can manipulate you at any corner. Though his post goes on to say that he believes it is lack of awareness that allows this to happen. Wouldn't it be more self-serving to simply believe that they have no control over you what-so-ever and so when your vibration does temporarily lower you don't then start believing that negative entities are influencing you and then therefore allow them to influence you?

I believe it would be much more self-serving to assume that if your vibration is lowering, it is because of a belief you have about yourself and the situation at hand, and not any external forces.

Good topic. I love Montalk's website for various reasons, just like I enjoy TheBiggestPicture.net

Both sites however, talk about raising vibrations and then go on to put the majority of their focus onto negative influences. In my perspective, being aware that negative entities exist is fine, but focusing on the various ways that negative entities might gain the illusion of power instead of the ways you are truly self-empowered may make some people stagnate longer than they need to.
That may happen in some cases, interesting point, I'll keep it in mind. However, many people (call them truthers) are believing that "the [control] system" must be dismantled, taken down, destroyed... for humanity to be free. I believed that for several years. Now I understand that with great love and forgiveness we shall take over or replace the pillars/elements/institutions of the control system, including the mainstream media and the control over money, and even governments via nationalist/populist/traditionalist/conservative/antiglobalist movements. TBP is intended in part to help truthers become metaphysically sophisticated, so as to be more able to direct energies like righteous indignation toward more productive ends, rather than opposing/resisting the (apparent) control/tyranny that the black magicians present to the masses, which can only lead to more of the same unwanted conditions (because the universe doesn't understand like/dislike, only likeness; 4th Law of Creation). Perhaps the best example of this is Alex Jones, who it seems highly probable will go into, or stay in, negatively-oriented/polarized timelines, with no evident intention to become metaphysically learned (sticking steadfast to his Christian indoctrination). For other truthers who woke up upon discovering the monumental lies we have been told, and who haven't enclosed themselves in an informational bubble being rarely exposed to outside information thinking they know all that they need to know to take effective action, sites like TBP are useful.

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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by Rokazulu » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:01 pm

TBP wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:49 pm
sites like TBP are useful.
No doubt.

Forgive the criticism. That post was from a year ago, when I was overly pedantic. If it is in my reality, it is useful beyond measure.
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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by Brian Eveshi Rammac » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:37 pm

TBP wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:49 pm
[sites like TBP are useful.
As a Christian, I have a problem with using The Pirate Bay for legal information.
Brian Eveshi Rammac jonno
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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by OgBashar » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:09 am

Brian Eveshi Rammac wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:37 pm
TBP wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:49 pm
[sites like TBP are useful.
As a Christian, I have a problem with using The Pirate Bay for legal information.
I think your ok as long as you don’t turn into a pirate yourself. RRRRRRRRR! :p

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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by Alice » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:47 pm

OgBashar wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:09 am
Brian Eveshi Rammac wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:37 pm
TBP wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:49 pm
[sites like TBP are useful.
As a Christian, I have a problem with using The Pirate Bay for legal information.
I think your ok as long as you don’t turn into a pirate yourself. RRRRRRRRR! :p
ARRRRRR!

TBP wrote:Now I understand that with great love and forgiveness we shall take over or replace the pillars/elements/institutions of the control system, including the mainstream media and the control over money, and even governments via nationalist/populist/traditionalist/conservative/antiglobalist movements. TBP is intended in part to help truthers become metaphysically sophisticated, so as to be more able to direct energies like righteous indignation toward more productive ends, rather than opposing/resisting the (apparent) control/tyranny that the black magicians present to the masses, which can only lead to more of the same unwanted conditions (because the universe doesn't understand like/dislike, only likeness; 4th Law of Creation).
According to Bashar, it is not about striving for outer change, "take over or replace," but about being the change:

"As you create the state of being you prefer, one of self-empowerment, one of joy, one of passion, one of creativity, one of love--there is no room in that vibration for fear, self-doubt, paranoia...you will shift yourself, slowly or quickly, from one parallel version of Earth to another to another to another, and each of those will be more and more reflective and representative of the state of being you have created...you never change the planet you're on. You change yourself, and shift to a parallel reality that's representative of the change you've made within yourself."

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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by basharelan3937 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:10 am

Bashar has mentioned in the past that one of the main belief that guides human is fear.

He is correct about changing yourself and that'll shift you to parallel reality but that can be difficult for humans when they're constantly being reminded of things they should fear, either through media or other channels. So perhaps changing the outside would bring bigger changes to your civilization than individual changes and I wonder if you came on earth to change your belief or to change the outside through actions, but then one has to argue how do you bring bigger changes without changing yourself first? but then you end up shifting into parallel reality instead of helping the human civilization which is what you came here for.

I would love to see what Bashar has to say about that.

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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by OgBashar » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:54 am

You never change the world you are on, you change and you shift to one that is more representative of your new state of being.

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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by Alice » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:36 am

OgBashar wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:54 am
You never change the world you are on, you change and you shift to one that is more representative of your new state of being.
Exactly what B said in my quote above :)

Lately I have joined a neighborhood news group, and it is interesting that many of the sharings are about issues in
the area that I have not noticed at all, myself. They will say, "What's happening to our neighborhood" and it's just not
in my reality! :!:

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Re: Bashar on the Dark Side

Post by Rokazulu » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:56 am

Brian Eveshi Rammac wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:37 pm
TBP wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:49 pm
[sites like TBP are useful.
As a Christian, I have a problem with using The Pirate Bay for legal information.
TBP is not The Pirate Bay, it stands for TheBiggestPicture.
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